Right on Red, A Shift in Paradigm

"TheRealBicycleBuck" (therealbicyclebuck)
08/18/2017 at 13:16 • Filed to: None

After !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! ’s !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! about turning right on red, I learned that the signals are telling us more than we realized. It varies somewhat by state, but in general, there are two situations:

If the light is a red circle, then turning right on red is allowed unless there are signs that prohibit the movement.

If the light is a red arrow, then turning right on red is NOT ALLOWED unless there are signs that specifically allow the movement.

These rules come from the !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! . Only ten states have not adopted the MUTCD. !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! with just under half adopting the MUTCD as-is, the others supplementing the MUTCD with their own rules.

For me, the take-home lesson is to exercise caution when traveling. It may make someone mad if I don’t turn right on red, but there’s nothing saying I have to turn on red. If I’m not familiar with the local laws, I think I’ll just play it safe and wait for the green.

DISCUSSION (19)

PartyPooper2012 > TheRealBicycleBuck
08/18/2017 at 13:19

Let’s be clear here. If the light is red circle, you may still not turn right on red in all places. It depends on the city. For instance, in NYC, you cannot turn right on red, unless it is specifically stated.

Kinja'd!!!

WilliamsSW > PartyPooper2012
08/18/2017 at 13:21

Wow - I admit, I thought that was only a Quebec thing!

PartyPooper2012 > WilliamsSW
08/18/2017 at 13:23

It makes it that much more difficult moving. You come to a new city. Now you have to figure out where the local orgies are. If you can turn right on red. Where the supermarkets are. It’s a hassle

WilliamsSW > PartyPooper2012
08/18/2017 at 13:25

Yeah, but you have the priorities listed in the right order there, which helps.

tuxOnWindows > TheRealBicycleBuck
08/18/2017 at 13:30

What’s the ruling on turning right on red when you’re the second car from the light & there’s enough room on the paved shoulder to pass the first car?

I refuse to jump the first car in line to make the right turn & usually get ‘business’ from the car(s) behind me for doing so. I live in Vermont near the Canadian border if it matters.

jvirgs drives a Subaru > TheRealBicycleBuck
08/18/2017 at 13:32

Virginia is a right turn on red unless stated otherwise state.

Leon711 > TheRealBicycleBuck
08/18/2017 at 13:35

Nothing real to contribute, but fun fact, right in red is not a thing in the UK (but it would be left on red if it was).

TheRealBicycleBuck > PartyPooper2012
08/18/2017 at 13:38

And that’s why I said it varies somewhat by state!

According to ny.com , NYC is the only city in the U.S. where right on red is prohibited.

http://www.nyc.gov/html/dot/downloads/pdf/ssi09_rightonred.pdf

Chariotoflove > TheRealBicycleBuck
08/18/2017 at 13:43

When we lived in MA before I was eight, I remember that there was no such thing as turn on red (is that memory correct?). We moved to IN in 1976, and my parents started turning on red. My perception was that turn on red spread to encompass all states over time, but I never looked up the history.

In Dallas, whenever I see a no turn on red sign, it’s hit or miss whether the cars in front of me see or obey it (most often not), and I take that into account.

Chariotoflove > PartyPooper2012
08/18/2017 at 13:43

There is little about living and driving in NY that isn’t a hassle.

TheRealBicycleBuck > tuxOnWindows
08/18/2017 at 13:45

Passing on the shoulder breaks a couple of laws in most places: driving on the shoulder, and passing on the right.

PartyPooper2012 > Chariotoflove
08/18/2017 at 13:47

NY isn’t any different than most places. It’s the NYC in particular. I think that’s what you meant anyway.

Chariotoflove > PartyPooper2012
08/18/2017 at 13:48

Yes, sorry. I meant NYC. Outside the City, it’s mostly business as usual.

Urambo Tauro > TheRealBicycleBuck
08/18/2017 at 13:52

I still don’t know enough about the Federal MUTCD to comment on whether it’s good enough to be THE gold standard for all states to follow, but I like the idea of a nationwide consistency. There are a lot of things that states already agree on.

Xyl0c41n3 > tuxOnWindows
08/18/2017 at 14:11

In Texas, a lot of times the shoulders are also bike lanes (not marked as bike-only lanes, but used as bike lanes/emergency lanes/breakdown lanes. In some places, we also have designated bike lanes that are separate and distinct from shoulders).

Anyway, so sometimes the shoulders are bike lanes and at an intersection, if you’re the second car and want to turn right, you can jump that one car in front of you that’s going straight. You can mosey into the shoulder and make a right on red. But you can’t skip more than one car ahead. And you can’t skip at all if there’s a bike present. But it’s a thing that’s rarely (if ever?) enforced, as far as I’ve seen. People will regularly jump 3-4 four cars ahead to make the turn.

Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) > TheRealBicycleBuck
08/18/2017 at 14:14

Haha if you do not turn right on red here in NJ because “you dont feel like it” you will get the horn blared at you and probably the person will go around you. I generally get mad if someone doesnt go after a few seconds but I dont beep at them because I dont want to get shot. Most of the time people go eventually.

TheRealBicycleBuck > Xyl0c41n3
08/18/2017 at 14:27

“Anyway, so sometimes the shoulders are bike lanes and at an intersection, if you’re the second car and want to turn right, you can jump that one car in front of you that’s going straight. You can mosey into the shoulder and make a right on red.”

That’s a grey area. Here’s the key language: “(a) An operator may drive on an improved shoulder to the right of the main traveled portion of a roadway if that operation is necessary and may be done safely...” (from http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/docs/TN/htm/TN.545.htm )

It’s been tested in municipal court and the fellow fighting the ticket won, but that’s no guarantee of future success. http://www.statesman.com/news/local/driving-the-shoulder-approach-right-turn-lane-legal/J6KMMHVDh0jGy0Vg29HxwL/

Xyl0c41n3 > TheRealBicycleBuck
08/18/2017 at 14:42

I believe I alluded to the murkiness of the law, and the questions involving enforcement.

From the article you linked to (emphasis mine):

I talked to Lt. Ely Reyes, who heads the motorcycle section of the Austin Police Department’s highway enforcement division.

“It’s a very gray area, a very subjective interpretation,” Reyes said. “The law is not very well written.”

He noted that the statute allows you to go out there on the shoulder to pass “another vehicle” stopped on the road, not necessarily 43 of them in a row.

And I essentially wrote the same thing. You can pass one car, but passing multiple cars becomes questionable/ticketable.

dogisbadob > TheRealBicycleBuck
08/19/2017 at 15:55

Every red arrow I’ve seen has a no turn on red sign along with it.